Frustrated

Reefkeeping, Coral, Fish and Invertebrates.

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jt3069
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Re: Frustrated

Post by jt3069 »

i believe your fish have not had time to properly acclimate, nirtates are a mild problem but its not gonna kill a fish
and by acclimation i mean adjusting to your tank, they are still in a new environment, it can take months for a fish to truly be established in your tank
and by adding fish you start all over again, by changing the contants of your lil ecosystem

in other words when i was in the service, i moved alot, im not gonna be buddys with all the people in my new unit right off the bat
it can take months before that happens and fish are the same way, they need time to adjust and until they do they are on edge,stressing them and making them more likely to catch ich or and other disease

i think you should do just as you stated (leave them alone !!!!)

i've already stated what i use for in tank treatment
anenomes is a whole other ball game than fish!
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Amphiprion
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Amphiprion »

What are you using to measure salinity? If you haven't calibrated whatever instrument you are using (preferably a refractometer), then you run the chance of that reading being off by quite a bit. Salinity should be closer to 35 ppt or about 1.026. Don't raise it until you can confirm the accuracy/precision of the instrument in use. Nitrate isn't good, but those concentrations are tolerable by a wide range of things, fish, anemones, and many corals included. Should be lower ideally, however. What about phosphate? Not immediately lethal to corals in lower amounts, but not good in any measurable amount, really.

I would adjust the temperature back a bit closer to where you had it @ ~81-82. That is a normal reef temperature--78 is not. It is about 4 degrees cooler than the average healthy reef (and 6 degrees cooler than the most diverse, active reefs). Most of the invertebrates do much better at these temps and will be more likely to weather any major spikes in the long run. Fish, on the other hand, prefer a range of temps throughout the day and night, with some liking temps as low as 71 at night--most inverts would not like this, though. Fish usually do fine in warmer temps, though.

TDS should be zero. 5 ppm is enough to add nitrate and phosphate continually. Is that reading post or pre- DI resin? Or do you just have RO only? If the former, it may be time to change out the DI resin. Worth checking behind each stage to narrow down where the TDS are coming from.

None of this is a magic bullet, but addressing them won't hurt. As jt3069 said, it could also relate to behavioral or similar issues as far as the fish are concerned.
Andrew

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JRA95SHO
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Re: Frustrated

Post by JRA95SHO »

I'm using a refractometer to measure salinity. Andy calibrated both mine and his; actually calibrated them twice because the first time (right after he first did it when I bought mine), it was off a bit.

My RODI unit filters/DI has been recently changed out (recently as in around August 1 when we set the unit up). I had to buy new filters for it (one of them was the DI chamber) and whatever the long horizontal tube is that lays across the 3 vertical chambers. (Sorry, forgot what it's called but you usually don't have to replace those as often). TDS got as low as 3 after fresh filters and goes up to 6--have not been able to get it any lower; this is a post filtration number.

I am also currently running Kent Nitrate Sponge in a mesh bag in my sump, as well as growing some chateo in there.
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andy4499
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Re: Frustrated

Post by andy4499 »

He is using a refractometer that for checking his salinity and it has been calibrated as I did it with my calibration solution. So his salt level should be correct. As for it being a 30, that is what I keep my tank at. A couple of years ago I would always keep it at 35 and had problems, then I bought this new setup and it came with the water already set to 30 so I left it at that. I have had great results with keeping my salt level at 30. When he got the setup we changed out all of the filters in the RO DI unit with new ones. He is currently running a 4 stage RO DI (1 prefilter, 1 carbon, 1 RO and 1 DI chamber). If I get to come home this week end I may tray and go check out the tank and see if we can track down the problem.
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Amphiprion
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Amphiprion »

30 ppt isn't necessarily an issue, nor an immediate problem. It is much lower than average for reefs, howeve, if not oceans in general. I am surprised adequate amounts of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium in initial batches, unless it is boosted considerably.
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bluwtr
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Re: Frustrated

Post by bluwtr »

Just an idea that popped into my head worth considering--you haven't had a pest control treatment to your house recently have you? Obviously that would not be indicated by testing. Another idea to consider is if you have little ones in the house, could they have put something in your tank?

Just trying to think outside of the normal.

Best of luck and hang in there.
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Buddy08 »

i think running carbon would eliminate any pest control problem if some chemical was to accidentally make its way in the water.. I could be wrong as I always mark off my livingroom as a "no spray" zone
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Re: Frustrated

Post by JRA95SHO »

Well in addition to my black and white clown dying last night, my other clown fish that came with the tank died today. Oh and my blue hippo is fading fast; lying on his side breathing heavily. I don't think he'll make it through the night. Sucks....hate watching them suffer. I tried feeding and even squirted some water his way with a baster and got him to swim a bit, but he's surely a goner.

Checked my salinity tonight for the heck of it. I did a water change less than a week ago, so I figure all is still about 30, right? Wrong, salinity was at about 25!!!! That explains the pissed off anemone and other stuff looking rough. I added salt to the sump to get it back up to the 30+ range. As for the fish, all that have died were covered in ich. A 10 gallon QT and trying to disrupt the display trying to catch them won't work. I hate to sit here and watch stuff slowly go to crap, but I'm not sure what else to do. Not only am I watching my $ go down the toilet, but I'm watching living creatures die. This truly sucks.
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Amphiprion
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Amphiprion »

Out of curiosity, did you mix the salt for the water change while the water was cold? That will cause the problem you are experiencing every time. Refractometers can only compensate for temp to a small degree.
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Buddy08 »

+1 Amph, saltwater should be mixed in a container with warm water (dropping a heater in the container does the trick while also using a powerhead or two). After its mixed, you need to let it set for 24 hours before using.. Test it before adding to tank of course and add salt or fresh water accordingly. I hate that you're fish are dying on you.. For your wallets sake and the fishes sake.
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Re: Frustrated

Post by JRA95SHO »

Didn't know I needed to use a heater while mixing the water. I have a small one I can pull out of my QT tank and drop in the big rubbermaid container I use to mix up water. As for letting it sit overnight, I don't do that either. I mix the batch, get the salinity correct to a minimum level of 30. Once everything settles, the salinity usually increases, so I account for that. Once the water is mixed up, I turn off the pump in the tank and siphon out approx. 20 gallons (20% of my 100 gal tank). I then pour in the new water (20 gal), turn the pump on, and in about an hour everything settles down and clears up.

So maybe I should adjust my water changing habits a bit; however, this isn't what's killing all my fish. The coral are the least of my worries, because I have mostly softies and those that aren't so sensitive. I'm more worried about the ich. There's no point in buying other fish with ich in the tank because it kills them every time; like I've said a million times, there's no way I can catch and QT all the others....so I guess I'm just stuck with what I have. I have pretty much just about lost interest in putting anymore effort into this. I got the fever for a couple of months, now with all this, it's pretty much died out and I have been back to doing work on my cars.
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Re: Frustrated

Post by Buddy08 »

that is most likely your problem... your sudden swings in salinity is stressing your fish, cause ich flair ups, therefore killing them off one buy one. look at it this way, when you make sweet tea, the water is warm for the sugar to disolve... then you add the ice for a refreshing drink. In the saltwater, its similar... the cold water causes the salt to dissolve slower so you may add to much salt by accident and what youre reading as 30, may actually be 40 because not all the salt is dissolved. thats why you let it sit 24 hours so you know the salt has fully dissolved and you can get an accurate reading therefore keeping it all in reasonable levels without huge swings. If your fish are eating, thats a good sign. Keep feeding them, keep adding fresh water to the tank when you top off, and every water change you do, make sure you make the water in advance (at least 24 hours). Im almost certain that will fix your problem. BUT!!!! give it time, let it chill for a month or so after you get things in order before adding anything else and whatever you do, dont add another single fish while signs of ich are present in the tank. once the fish fatten up and the white spechs are gone (completely), you can add another fish but research it and consult other hobbyist before doing so otherwise you may loose another one. Good Luck!
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