Frustrated

[JRA95SHO]

My favorite fish died last night--my Atlantic Blue Tang. B&B recently got 3 in after the owner contemplated ordering some. I happened to be there and overheard him and asked him to order them because I was looking for one. I picked up 1 of the 3, Andy picked up the 2nd one, and one other reefer he knows from here, I believe, got the 3rd. Well, the 3rd guy's died right off the bat after a couple of days with ich. Mine lasted a few weeks and died last night (ich). Andy's also had ich, but has seemed to survive. Basically all 3 fish that came from there had ich/got ich.

I fed my fish frozen mysis with garlic powder daily, in addition to either raw garlic, or nori covered in garlic, and ocean nutrition formula 2 pellets. All of my fish ate and were very active, and got really fat! The ABT just kept getting worse, although active, until he finally bit the bullet yesterday. Now my clown fish has ich spots, as well as my yellow tang, and blue hippo tang. The other fish are OK, I suppose. My rose anemone has been looking rough though.

I am still battling high nitrates. I'm emptying my skimmer cup every day to every other day, changing the sock filter about every 2-3 days, dosing the tank with 1.5 ml of vodka daily (unless I'm gone a day or 2 here and there for work). I'm keeping calcium and alkalinity in check, and I just purchased Kent Nitrate Sponge, which I have 5 cups in a mesh bag in my sump. This is said to assist in lowering nitrates. In addition, I have chateo growing in my sump.

After last night, I'm about fed up with this thing. I'm going to continue doing water changes and checking the alk/calc/nitrates, etc.; but otherwise I'm not spending any more $ on this tank for quite awhile. I'm tired of literally "flushing" my $ down the toilet. Now that my tank has ich in it (and has had it for awhle), it is not feasible to catch about a dozen fish and QT them; not only that, my QT is a small 10 gal. I feel like the more $ I spent, the worse this thing gets and the more pissed I get.

Not sure what else to do at this point except just maintain it, quit buying crap; if the existing livestock all die off from ich; then just sell off the good stuff, tear it down, sell it, start over one day when I make six figures and can afford to throw my money in the trash, etc. I don't know. I'm aggravated right now.

[Amphiprion]

Just about everyone in the hobby has been in your predicament at some point in time. It gets discouraging at times, but is very rewarding when it turns out well. I know you are using vodka, but have you tried growing any plants? They are actually more immediately effective at reducing nitrate and phosphate by comparison to bacteria, which take a long time. Beyond that, experience will help you quite a bit. Atlantic blue tangs are a bit tricky to start with and, contrary to what you may hear, are a bit finicky in terms of survival. In fact, you won't find many kept in the long term at all. That's another story, however. Just don't let it get to you too much at this point, because it is going to happen. You'll get burned enough, so to speak, that you'll know when you should and shouldn't spend the money on something. Even then, there will be the occasional splurge that won't end well. Everybody still has those every now and then. I've had some catastrophic losses over the course of my experiences--some that would send chills down many folks' spines and wallets. So buck up, keep at it, and gather as much info (and observe) as you can.

[mikester]

ck and see if your temp is going up and down the one way to kill ich is to have like a higher temp in tank like 78 or 80 degrees but the temp would have to be steady

[Fishfood]

a tempature of 78-80 is not going to kill ich. As a matter of fact I don't know if a high or low temp will kill them at all. It will if the fish can't survive and there is no host.

[JRA95SHO]

The most I bumped the temp to was 81 or 82 max and I did it over a day or so in 2 degree increments. The fish tolerated the higher temps just fine; however, my huge rose anemone and some of the corals looked a little rough. I think I backed it down to 80 and I normally keep it at 78. I do have to constantly stay on top of my calc/alk #s though and add a couple of tsps of calcium and baking soda maybe once or twice a week.

The other fish have ich. I hope they survive; going to be major pissed if I lose my whole tank. I don't know that I will "start over" if that's the case. As of now, all of my fish are active and eating their regular food supplemented w/ garlic. Hell, the Atlantic Blue was active all the way up until he just suddenly died. I literally went out to the garage for about an hour or so, came back, and he was dead.

As for the other fish that have visible ich, mostly my fat/healthy, active yellow tang, my blue hippo, both of my clowns (who didn't get it the last time), and the wife said she saw a couple of spots around the eye on my vlamingi tang (but I don't think that's ich----he's super super healthy, active, and eats every damn thing I put in there food wise). Yes, I have a Vlamingi in a 100 gallon tank. Someone go put me out on the firing squad, shoot me, then dump my tank in the back yard. No....really, I know all about them. He's about 5" now. Once he gets too big, I'm giving him to Andy; when he outgrows that, (if he does), we'll do something else with him.

Someone told me that Atlantic Blues were ich magnets. I thought he may have meant the blue hippo or powder blue. I know those are, but are the ABT's highly susceptible too moreso than any other tang? I figured they were equivalent to the yellow tangs, which are relatively easy to care for fish, peacful demanor, and avg susceptibility to ich.

[Fishfood]

You had and have Ich in your tank. Every one of your fish has it. Many can deal with it but tangs tend to do worse. short of treating the entire tank you won't eliminate it. It will continue its cycle even if you don't notice the cysts. When and if the tangs get stressed you will see it even worse. From my understanding there has been research that shows fish can become semi immune to the ick in their tank at the 11 month mark, but thats only based on not adding anything new to the tank for that time frame and if you add a new fish that has ich after that time the fish that have that built up immune system can and will be back to square one and get ich.

The bottom line is you will always have ich in your tank unless you treat it and with having fish that are more sensitive to it won't help. Putting stress on those fish will also not help.

[Amphiprion]

80-82 will not, unfortunately, kill ich. In fact, it speeds the life cycle, which is only useful when used in combination with certain treatment options. Beyond that, 82 is actually the normal average temperature for most healthy reefs. Not sure where low-ball estimates for temperature came from, except for people who kept fish-only systems where there is some benefit. I've always had my systems sitting around 82 degrees, give or take a couple.

[Fishfood]

I think Ich is almost unavoidable if you don't qt your fish. I have ich. I haven't put any of my fish in my current tank in qt. My fish have been doing fine with it. All of my fish have been in the tank for a fairly long time except a neon goby i have. I lost one of the two I got, and thought both were gone until I found one in the overflow the other week. I just think you are trying to keep a species of fish that doesn't do well with ich, and keeping them in a system that most people wouldn't.

[jt3069]

i agree with fishfood on this one
id wait longer before you decide to waste any more money (hate to be blunt)
and set your current system up to handle the demands of such delicate spieces that your trying to keep

do some research, i know this is not RC, but their are some very experinced people on this site
that will help you find the info that you need,
or advise learned from experince (the hard way)

just throwing a hand out before you waste any more money or fishes lives
and im sure the rest on here will do the same

[Buddy08]

just because a fish doesnt have visible signs of ich (i.e. white spechs) doesn't mean the fish is ich-less... its still there, and will be there unless that fish and all of its fish companions have been treated.. it comes with the territory. All of my fish have "ich" but if you were to look at them, you couldnt tell because they are all healthy and happy.. therefore the signs arent visible. If i were to go to B&B tomorrow and buy a new fish, one of my current fish may begin to show some signs because the fish may stress with the new addition. If you add in poor aquarium conditions into the equation, that will further increase the intensity of the ich outbreaks and can make it more devastating in the event of something going bad.

I know i have said it before but i will say it again, luckily for you; your setup was free. Dont be discouraged because youre having troubles. I think if you started from scratch, you may have been more successful as you would have researched before you bought but since you inherited your setup, you basically were thrown head first into the hobby. Take your time, research everything, and after you research that... research more. Otherwise, you might as well just give your money to my ole lady, she loves money and will take it in a heartbeat. that way, nothing is dying. I have spent 4,500$ on my 75 gallon since Feb... im sure thats 1/10th of what some people here have spent including andy, its a go big or go home hobby. the less research you do, the higher the chance of something going wrong or you wasting money on something that is bound to fail.

As for calcium and alk, that is for your corals, not so much your fish. There is a missing variable here somewhere making it hard to pin point the problem. If i remember correctly, its a 100 gallon tank... What live stock do you currently have and of course how many of what? Secondly, what type of protein skimmer are you using? When its opperating, what does the liquid look like in the waste bucket... If it looks like brownish tan water, youre pushing to much flow through there and need to adjust it.. if it looks like brown sludge and smells like straight up morning farts... its working properly but that all depends on how big it is and what size tank its rated for.

[JRA95SHO]

The $50 black and white clown died today. Can't find him. Everything is dropping like flies, so I'm going to let it all die off and then let it sit until I'm ready to tear it down and sell it, or just leave it set up with hardly anything in it. I hate to sell a nice setup, but this thing is really pissing me off. I'll do the water changes and maintain the levels, but other than that, I'm not spending another dime. I'm pretty much done with it for now. I had to replace a $2000 sewer grinder pump at my house; so there's no $ left to waste on this thing anyway. I can't fathom how people have spent thousands and thousands on this hobby and have stuff all die. I mean, why not go to Biloxi and throw $5000 on the roulette or craps table on a 1 shot bet. The enjoyment factor fades as quick as it comes with these things. Sucks....I enjoyed it for a very short time; now it's a financial burden of disappointment. Sucks

[jt3069]

what fish do you have left
ill qt them instead of you letting them just die
and any thing else you plan on letting die ill take
and if you decide to get back in to your tank you can have them back

i see no sense in letting your $$$ livestock just die

[JRA95SHO]

I'm still going to maintain feeding of mysis shrimp w/ garlic powder mixed in, as well as nori w/ garlic powder, in addition to the ocean nutrition pellets. There's just no way for me to QT all of my remaining fish in the little 10 gal QT that I have. That will only accelerate their death. I'm working on the nitrate problem, and as for the ich; nothing I can do about it. I'm not adding anymore livestock to the tank. I'm not giong to just let them "go to hell" and quit feeding them; I just have no other option but to stay on top of keeping the levels in range, keep them fed well, and hope for the best.

The following are still alive: 1 yellow tang, 1 blue hippo tang, 1 vlamingi tang, 1 clown fish, 1 black sailfin blenny, 1 orange spot goby, 1 blue spot goby, 1 pajama cardinal, 1 green chromis, 1 coral beauty angel.....and I think that's it fish wise. Of course I have shrimp and inverts, but they aren't affected by ich. My huge rose anemone easily worth over $100 has been looking like crap too. Other than the high nitrates (which I've always had), I've been keeping my parameters in check. I just don't get it.

[Amphiprion]

What exactly are your parameters? Numbers only, please. Try to list out as many things as possible--makeup water tds would be good, too. If other things are having issues, something isn't right, somewhere. Has anything harassed the anemone? Feed it lately?

[JRA95SHO]

Nitrates still off the charts at around 40; after water changes, 30-ish. Alkalinity 10, Calcium was 380, bumped it up slightly last week, salinity at 30 per refractometer (which is in the 1.021-1.025 range), TDS of my RODI water is showing at 5ppm. (005 on the meter). Temp has been at 78 until I upped it to 80-81 due to the ich; I adjusted it back to 78. Anemone periodically gets mysis shrimp directed his way with a turkey baster.