Loss of "Experts" on Reef Central

Discussion Of Local Group Meetings For the Baldwin County and Mobile Area

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Amphiprion
Astrea snail
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Post by Amphiprion »

I am not necessarily anti zeovit either--just not willing to possibly crash a tank that has been up this long. I add vinegar myself, though not to add a source of organic carbon, just to extend the capabilities of kalkwasser. I do appreciate the benefits of its use though. But vodka and vinegar are drastically different than zeovit. Besides the zeolitic media, I believe the organic carbon source is H2C(OH)--methanol, which I am unsure of the biochemical pathways that utilize it and what byproducts result. We already know that ethanol and acetic acid yield harmless byproducts that dont even accumulate. Still skeptical, but not closed-minded. I just want to know whats going on, that is all.
Andrew

25g planted nature aquarium
Redfish
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Post by Redfish »

I actually believe that the Zeovit dealer would INCREASE sales if they would be more specific about the mechanics of their system. I certainly believe that, at least certain parts of it have merit. They are obviously adding a carbon source to promote bacterial growth just as any carbon source might. Beyond the concerns with lack of info, I think there are two problems. The first is that they are trying to lump all tanks together to issue directions for the products use. One size definitely does not fit all. The second problem is that I beleive there is another ingredient which is proactive in the reduction of zoo in the coral tissue. I do not believe that the 'improved coloration and consistent lightening' of the tissue is directly or only related to lack of nutrients alone. This proactive ingredient can be overdosed to easily under the one size doesn't fit all scenario above. Alternatively, I believe the system does achieve zero nutrients and they attempt to selectively feed the coral to relieve stress and that provides the coloration. This alternate would be even harder to control, and more dangerous, than my first thought.

I know that I have previously have added enough carbon source in my tank to definetly get to a zero nutrient level. I did not see the lightening of the corals, only obvious signs of distress.

Who knows, it is just plain too expense and complicated for me to try.

edit: I am too tired to correct the spelling and english so I will just apologize for it.
sb1227
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Post by sb1227 »

Phil, we'll forgive you this time....just don't let it happen again. :P


Ok, admitting to my limited knowledge of zeovit, I almost have to equate it to human bodybuilding. Bear with me. :D A couple of weeks before a contest, you go thru a nothing but protein period. Boiled or broiled chicken or poached cod 4 to 5 times a day. Only. No carbs at all. This reduces the body fat greatly. We do not want any body fat. A couple of days before, you go to the tanning bed......the night before drink a few glasses of red wine to make the veins stand out and give a nice flush to the cheeks.. And the massive amounts of amino acids and vitamins. :roll:

Ok, you go and look awesome with all your muscles bulging and win the competition. Woo-hoo..

Healthy living? I think not. Ok for a short period but damaging in the long run? Definately.
I have always gotten this impression with zeovit, that we want super colorful (and they are) corals and no nutrients. I seem to recall they also rely on amino acid additions, as well as other things? This to me is just unnatural, but I am one who believes that corals need to catch other food to be really healthy and that color alone isn't necessarily a sign of health. Kind of a varied diet, so to speak.
I would like to know of some tanks that have been using this for say, 8 to 10 years, and how they're doing then. Maybe it would help to convince me. One or two years won't cut it.
Redfish
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Post by Redfish »

I believe, and I think that science shows us, that corals have adapted so that they can live in varying conditions. In dirty (not poor quality water, but prone to sediment disturbance), deep water conditions they encourage zoo growth for sustenance. In shallow, varied quality water, they seem to prefer expelling the zoo and living photosynthetically. They just happen to have some magnificent sunscreen.

In the places I have been diving where hard corals are abundent, the corals are primarily brown in water deeper than say 8 feet. There is, however, the occasional beautifully colored coral. In the lagoon areas, almost every coral has at least some color showing. I am sure that in these areas, I am looking at the same corals.

The mechanics of the changes are what we don't understand. Sure it is pretty easy to say that light is perhaps the primary driving force since most corals are colored in our brightly lit aquariums. Some corals don't color up though. Why is this? Are we only getting the naturally colored corals. I don't think so. So there are other factors involved. Zeovit is playing with these mechanics.

I am not sure I am ready to buy into Zeovit creating an unhealthy coral as an end result. I am more sold that the process of getting to the end result and the process of maintaining the end result utilizes something that causes problems.

In essence, when I add vinegar/vodka to remove nutrients I starve zoo to promote better suncreen (I really use it to remove algae processes primarily, but that is one of the original ideas). Zeovit just plays god with a few more chemicals/processes.

edit (addition): I have never bleached a colored coral no matter what I did to it. I have caused it to lighten up, but never bleach. On the other hand I have bleached many brown corals including frags of colored corals that had worked their way into areas of low light that had browned up.
sb1227
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Post by sb1227 »

Fascinating....and with the vinegar/vodka additions have you noticed obvious results? For example, the lessening of any existing algae, or is it used mainly for a preventative?

To clarify my previous post, I'm trying to see if the mentality is similar. Most healthy, serious bodybuilders are just that. They believe in building the body as they want it from the inside out, using certain components to obtain certain goals for long term success. It almost sounds like what the zeovite people are trying to do. I think I'm going to have to look into it a little more.

I remember wondering if it would make any difference, say, to add parts of the system....like the amino acids. I would be interested to see the different experiences of those who use they whole system and those who only use parts of it.

I have to admit that I would have to consider balance. It's a very precarious thing, in reef tanks, or human bodies. Upsetting the balance often had disastrous results...
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