Loss of "Experts" on Reef Central

Post by **snoopdog** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:28 am

That is why I quit frequenting the site. Everyone is an experts and too many opinions.

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:06 pm

It certainly does make it difficult for the beginner reef aquarist. Although I went thru the same BS the first time I did a planted freshwater tank.

It was that same "You MUST do it this way and with ONLY this expensive equipment or it will NEVER work". I learned then not to listen to anyone with that attitude, but it did almost talk me out of the hobby.

What I find sad is the number of people who blindly follow any idea. I think I could put up a recipe for red bugs, flatowrms, acro flatworms and any other parasite....let's see...crush 10 bayer aspirin, 2 pepcid a/c, and a valium...add to tank water and in 5 hours... POOF! All your problems are gone! It worked for MY tank! You know some gullible SOB would do it in a heartbeat.

Fishfood · Post by **Fishfood** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:24 pm

sb1227 wrote: What I find sad is the number of people who blindly follow any idea. I think I could put up a recipe for red bugs, flatowrms, acro flatworms and any other parasite....let's see...crush 10 bayer aspirin, 2 pepcid a/c, and a valium...add to tank water and in 5 hours... POOF! All your problems are gone! It worked for MY tank! You know some gullible SOB would do it in a heartbeat.

So are you suggesting that we wait around for a guy like Dr. Ron who has all these "credentials" to come up with a solution for everything? I guess I look for ideas like this and let them prove that it works more then just on their tank. I am not going to be so quick to dismiss anything that someone suggest. So follwing blindly, not a good idea, dismissing what someone says has worked because you don't believe it is also not a good idea either but keeping an open mind is.

For instance I switched to BB a few yrs ago. When I did that my tank looked so much better. I had to do it with the increased flow i put in the tank though. It looked great up until Ivan. I also ran a great tank with sand before that but it went downhill when i moved and had to replace the sand. So I believe in both methods. Heck when i started i had a cc tank that things lived in.

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:03 pm

No, because it would take forever. Most of us don't have that kind of time when something is attacking our corals. Honestly, credentials mean less to me than actual knowledge and experience. So far, anyway...when the problem has been so widespread there has been someone with the setup and ability to do some sort of testing. The red bug thing was a good example, That guy tested the Hell out of the interceptor treatment before he ever posted the recipe, and even then he gave plenty of warning. There were even more warnings with the acro flatworm treatment, especially not to treat the tank. But often people don't listen to the warnings, or use enough common sense to think about how these treatments will affect their system. They want an easy answer, and an easy recipe and down the road will be the first to blame everyone else for the problems in their tank. I have no problem with the people who consider the options and decide it's the only option for them, but they aren't usually the ones who cry about it later either.

I've often wondered, say....if someone posted they poured a can of coke in his tank and his corals looked fantastic the next day. Would this same person post the next week if his corals were all dead? A little extreme, yes...but just a what if. And how many people would have already poured a can of coke in their own system?

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:08 pm

For instance I switched to BB a few yrs ago. When I did that my tank looked so much better. I had to do it with the increased flow i put in the tank though. It looked great up until Ivan. I also ran a great tank with sand before that but it went downhill when i moved and had to replace the sand. So I believe in both methods. Heck when i started i had a cc tank that things lived in.

Don't get me wrong....I have no problem with BB, or DSB, or SSB.

If you maintain and healthy tank, whatever your means to do it are...is great. Same goes for anyone. But when someone tells me that unless I do it their particular way it won't work, then I start to have some issues. I personally love the diversity of this hobby, that's what makes it so interesting.

Fishfood · Post by **Fishfood** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:15 pm

We are on the same page. I guess just small tibit of info I got off of that link you posted Dr. Ron came off as thinking his way was the only way, people on RC didn't agree and that is where the problems came along, or it could have been Boomer that said his way was the only way. Either way thats what I get from it. Someone is so stuck up on what they believe they won't listen to others. So can anyone tell me why zevoit isn't welcomed on RC

I've read about it a few times and can't say if its right or wrong, but I'll say i won't knock it until I try it, which I probably won't do.

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:25 pm

It does seem like an interesting idea...zeovit. I'm way to chicken to try it.

I think the whole thing was just a big, sorry mess. But I did find it interesting that someone posted the web address on RC where they were going and the moderators removed it and told the guy to take his grudge elsewhere. They need to be a little careful with that attitude, or they will lose alot of money from the paying members.

Redfish · Post by **Redfish** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:17 pm

Zeovit is not welcome for two reasons. First, the folks that don't run it can't stand that there might be something to it but can't figure out whats in it. Second, the folks that do use it and post are hard headed SOBs that can't admit that they don't know what the heck they are doing but it seems to work...insome cases. Some of them are a bit overzealous in their advertisement of the product as in "we have discovered the holy grail of reefkeeping."

The discussions turn into "I can't believe you put crap into your tank that you do not know what it is!" It doesn't help that the creator and seller will not discuss it and threaten to sue anyone who spculates whats in it.

In other words your typical kindergarten doscussion.

Brandon · Post by **Brandon** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:56 pm

That's one problem with the internet and forums like RC , you run into a lot of 'internet experts'. Can't give you a darned bit of knowledge they know from experience, but can quote crap out of books they don't understand all day.. I've seen a lot of that sort of thing on RC. Bores me to tears these days, but maybe I'm just getting old & cranky.

Post by **snoopdog** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:18 pm

I am just getting bored with the internet, maybe I should start getting into malicious activity.

Fishfood · Post by **Fishfood** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:01 pm

Redfish wrote:Zeovit is not welcome for two reasons. First, the folks that don't run it can't stand that there might be something to it but can't figure out whats in it. Second, the folks that do use it and post are hard headed SOBs that can't admit that they don't know what the heck they are doing but it seems to work...insome cases. Some of them are a bit overzealous in their advertisement of the product as in "we have discovered the holy grail of reefkeeping."

The discussions turn into "I can't believe you put crap into your tank that you do not know what it is!" It doesn't help that the creator and seller will not discuss it and threaten to sue anyone who spculates whats in it.

In other words your typical kindergarten doscussion.

I guess my point in posting that is that the people who left were not the first group of people who did not get along with others on the forum.

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:42 pm

I am just getting bored with the internet, maybe I should start getting into malicious activity.

LOL! But then you have to deal with courts......and lawyers and....

Post by **snoopdog** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:53 pm

I already do....

Amphiprion · Post by **Amphiprion** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:57 pm

Actually, I think both Bomber and Dr. Ron had the "better than thou" attitude toward eachother's methods. Neither were ready to agree to disagree or yield, but rather they (and other experts) were at eachothers' throats. No one seems to realize that there is no one way to do this hobby, as for now, it is far more art than science. As for zeovit, I am not willing to try a product that has killed as many tanks as it has helped--at least not until they begin more research to refine it. And you are right, they have NO CLUE what is occurring on a biochemical level when these products are added. If more research is done and it is fine tuned to minimize death/damage and assuming they give more scientific background on the processes, I would certainly be willing to try it. There is no arguing that in those peoples' tanks it has worked, the results are nothing short of spectacular.

Redfish · Post by **Redfish** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:03 pm

Oh I agree Drew. The intolerance of the 'mainstream' on RC has led to several spinoff forums. I think there is probably some blame to lay on both sides, however.

I think in the case of the Zeovit discussions, it was a mistake for RC not to provide them with their own forum or to allow them to continue to use the sponsors forum. It would have been easier for a Mod to jump on a bashers case if he posted something negative or non-contributory if they had their own forum area.

BTW, you should not read my post as being anti Zeovit. I am not. Not for public consumption but I have dosed vodka & vinegar for a long time. I am also experimenting with hydrogen peroxide.